Anyone who has driven the stretch of the M42 from Junction 1 at the M5 to Junction 8 in the last 3 years will know that millions of pounds (£100 million to be precise) has been spent erecting gantries over the motorway. The roadworks lasted over 3 years and caused considerable delays during the whole of that period. And for what purpose?
The gantries support variable speed limit signs designed to reduce congestion by changing the speed limit to suit the traffic levels. It's called Active Traffic Management apparently. All well and good? What you may not have noticed is the platforms on the back of the gantries. These platforms are designed to support speed cameras that can be moved easily between each gantry.
Last week the first of these speed cameras was put into place. So far I think I've spotted 3 on the stretch of motorway between Junction 4 and Junction 8 but as they appear to be easily movable I wouldn't take my word for it.
According to the Highways Agency the "Active Traffic Management" system will be using the latest development in camera enforcement technology - the Highways Agency Digital Enforcement Camera System (HADECS). HADECS will only be used when there are mandatory variable speed limits indicated on the signs and signals along the Active Traffic Management stretch. This system will be used to ensure that drivers are complying with the speed restrictions. It is not intended to be used for enforcement under normal 70mph motorway running conditions.
I would applaud the effort of the Highways Agency to reduce congestion as I travel the M42 most weekdays. Except.... it doesn't f**king work does at? The ATM has been running for several months now and my journey is no quicker. In fact, if anything it's slower. Especially in the morning when I get on the motorway at Junction 9 to come south and sit for 20 minutes in the queue caused by the f*ck up that is the merging of the M42, M6 Toll and the M6 south. All of which happens just north of the ATM.
You know, a part of me almost hopes that the speed cameras raise a sh1t load of money because otherwise the whole exercise has been a pointless waste of time. Of course, it's only a really really small part of me. Like a little toe or a nostril hair or something.
Nice blog.I like this.
Nick
http://www.yahoo.com
ATM hasn't started yet and won't be working for several months. It will allow controlled use of the hard shoulder, so will be obvious when it starts.
HADECS hasn't started yet either, so give it chance. HADECS will be working when the signs show red roundels around the speed limits, making them mandatory. They are currently only advisory
You say that this traffic management is not intended to be used for enforcement under normal 70mph motorway running conditions. Does this mean that when it flashed at me about 1hr ago, I won't get points or fined for it?
No, you won't get a ticket for two reasons:
1: controlled motorways (as on M25 and coming on M42 only enforce when they show lower mandatory limits. There isn't the political will to enforce 70
2: Its not actually working yet. The systems still under test.
Mandatory limits will be shown with a red ring around the speed, as on normal road signs. Without it, the limit is just advisory. Obviously, 70mph is mandatory from the national speed limit signs and therefore you were being naughty, but will get away with it.
Yeah ive just been through that stretch of motorway was slightly freaked out by the number of speed camera signs but now you mention all the speed limit signs were in blue just advisorys and i didnt get flashed so i think im alright
Does any one know when this system will become active?, any links that i have found point to summer 2005.
I was driving down there last nite and the variable speed limits were still in blue, does this mean its definatley not active?.
Does this mean that all the cameras every 70meters or so on the left are monitoring the traffic? I thourght they could be the type of speed camera measuring average speed over distance.
Does this mean that all the cameras every 70meters or so on the left are monitoring the traffic? I thourght they could be the type of speed camera measuring average speed over distance.
Mandatory speed limits come into effect from today.
What a bag of AR$E. Variable speed limits are a load of rubbish. I use this motorway twice a day to do over 30 miles and today (The day the limits are turned on!) it actually took me 10 minutes longer with this sytem.
Speed limits went 60 50 70 40 50 70 60 How the smeg are you supposed to keep up with that changing every 200 yds??
They also said 'queue ahead' & 'congestion' which there never is first thing in the morning. The only time there was, was when they had to stop the traffic to catch a stray Swan!!
The only problem with this variable stuff is you spend more time watching the signs and your speedo that whats going on around you. I don't even remember the journey to work this morning!! Might be a good thing though.
I have just got off the complete mess of traffic management on the M42 (3.30 PM), as mentioned the speed limits changed 50, 40, 60, 50, 60, 50, 60 and so on every 200 yards, f**king riduculous! Also the signs read 'CONGESTION and QUEUE' when the traffic is blatently free flowing and is just being stressed out (and distracted) by changing your road speed every 200 yards, The amazing scheme put 10 minutes on my jorney time, yet again Britain takes a step backwards...what will this country come to...
Wow someone else agrees with me!!
The motorway was empty this morning except there was a 50Mph limit. There's some Gimp in an office somewhere having a laugh at screwing up people getting to work.
The motorway was actually better when they were doing the roadworks 2 years ago!!
This new system has lead to there being lorries sitting in the middle lane cause even more traffic flow problems. Wouldn't an easier solution be to ban all HGVs between 7.30-9am and 4-6pm. Traffic would be a lot better!!
Went through the M42 section from M6 toll to m40 yesterday, totally unaware of the implications of this system and unfortunately ignored the speed restriction signs (flashing red). Having been on to the Highways agency today 08457 50 40 30, they informed me that the speed cameras as yet dont have a licence, and will not be operational for another couple of weeks.
I go from M42 south to past the M6 toll every day. The best day was this morning as most of the signs were turned off. The only hold up was where there was a single 40Mph sign and everybody slapped on there brakes!!
In total has added over an hour journey time this week. Active traffic management work?? Does is b*lx
I came down the M42 last night from J9 to J6 in the rain. The whole stretch had 40mph restrictions and warnings about "congestion ahead" on the large message board. Yet the motorway was clearer than I have seen it for a long time. The system seems to be making things considerably worse, not better.
Is this correct about the speed camera's having no licence, used the M42 several times last week and didnt realise what the implication were, and I still dont think many other drivers realise either
Use the M42 from Junc 9 to Junc 3A and vise versa every day. I now have to leave the house fifteen minutes earlier and get home 40 minutes later. Used the motorway on a sunday evening very few cars about, but had to adhere to a forty mile an hour speed restriction!!! Doh! What a joke, may start using the A roads to get to work.
Once again I came down the M42 south from the end of the M6Toll to the M42 - M6 link last night (a Sunday) at about 6.30pm. There were signs saying congestion and the whole stretch had a temporary 40mph limit. There was no congestion and not a single person was paying any attention to the speed limit.
I think its so patronising the sign. Especially the ones that say 'Slow Spary' Have we not ever driven on a motorway in the rain.
The whole system seems adhoc and signs turn on after the heavy traffic has cleared. The system reacts to slowly and should only be used if there is an accident on the motorway.
Also I thought speed cameras had to be visible and in an area where there are several fatalities a year?!
I totally agree totally agree to all said above i have just come in after being flashed whilst no limits were posted and motorway was flowing normally at 65MPH 70 TOPS the camera flashed me and two cars behind me. Dont even start me on the Variable limits anybody remember the days before the M6 Toll and you could get up and down the M42 relatively trouble free????
I wondered what the roadworks had been for - slowing me down for for the last 2 years. Back then everyone had to chug along at 50mph to avoid the cameras just North of junction 6. And there were no problems at all. Perhaps they should have stuck with that system instead.
I called the Highways Agency today on 08457504030 after being flashed only last night. The woman said that the cameras were live and were loaded with film. However I'm still unsure as to whether they have a license yet.??
Does anyone have any builds, are we going to get fined yet...
I am very surprised to read that the cameras are flashing. I use that part of the M42 every day and have never seen the cameras flash - they must have a fair tollerance as I have seen several folks overtake me whilst I have been doing the bang on the limit, and yet they weren't flashed.
Someone at work claimed that the system also works on a SPECS type basis - i.e. time between cameras. Is this true?
A
The camera's being on is rubbish. I have been through the 50 signs at 70mph+ and nothing has gone off. This proves two things. The cameras aren't working and there is no need for it to be a 50mph Limit!!!
This is the worst system ever. Even if the traffic is only moving at 60 - 65 mph. I would rather not have over head signs restricting what I do. I have allready switched off from reading them as it is just to confusing so now just concentrate on what the traffic flow is doing. So I'm bound to get caught by at least one camera a day when they are switched on!!
My eyes are in good working order, but when it is dark I have trouble distinguishing the 50 from 60 until very close up. Then I find I have been staring at them, I'm an accident waiting to happen!
12th night tomorrow. Lets hope they remember to turn all the lights and decorations off!!
I got flashed this morning on the M25 heading from Heathrow to the A3 at about 01:15 with just me on the road. Hope they are not working !!!
Having read all the comments on the above, I would like to add my "bit". Firstly. To all the wankers that think they are above the law regarding the speed limits. I hope you all collect your 12 points and pushbike within the next few weeks. The roads will be much safer without you. Secondly. To all the people that think trucks should be kept off the roads between 07:30 and 09.00. Do you think that you are the only people that use the roads? Do you think that you are more important than the guy driving the truck that gets your food to the supermarket, or your newspaper to the shop, or even getting the petrol to the garage, that sells it to you, so that you can drive your car? Get a life you sad sorry people. Without trucks this country would grind to a halt in 3 days. I agree that to see signs that are giving the wrong information can be galling, but you never know what is around the next bend. We need to see this system working correctly, but I think we also need to see that it also catches all the idiots that think they are immune to speed cameras. I am all for it. I sometimes doubt my own speedometer because I have nutters flashing at me, because I am doing the speed limit. All we need now are cameras that catch the total twats, the idiots that overtake on the left, the idiots that sit in the middle lane, the idiots that tailgate. You all know who you are. And despite what you think, you all drive like idiots. When we get the likes of you aff the roads, then the people that use the roads properly, will breathe a sigh of relief. Maybe all cars should be banned from all motorways between the hours of 07:00 and 18:00 hrs. And another thing. All kids should take a bus to school, or walk. Parents with kids in cars between 08:00 and 09:00...and 15:00 and 16:00. should be TOTALLY BANNED. That would cut the rush hour down a hell of a lot.
If the cameras on the M42 are the same idea as the gantry ones on the M25, I *believe* the following to be true:
1. The cameras have no film - they are completely digital. So the HA woman who said they had film in was probably lying.
2. They are infra-red cameras, so there is no flash!
3. They are only enforced on the variable speeds limits, i.e. not 70mph.
4. There are rumours, however, that they catch anything over about 93mph. Not sure how true this is though.
5. I don't believe they employ the SPECS technology - i.e. the average speed cameras.
Drove down that section (southwards) a couple of nights ago shortly before midnight. Was completely unaware of any new systems in place, but then again the road was completely empty. What I did notice was some of the display boards flashing as you're about to go under them. Don't know what this is. Thoughts?
Pro-Driver - ur a fucking twat
well said big-boy, most lorry drivers are tossers. lets overtake our mates doing 53mph, whilst they are doing 52mph so we can hold up everybody else.
I am a white van man anythink that is not a van or a wagon should be bannd from ALL moterways and OLD people who drive 40 mph down the center lane should be shot.
I am a white van man anythink that is not a van or a wagon should be bannd from ALL moterways and OLD people who drive 40 mph down the center lane should be shot.
For crap sakes, how difficult is it!?
The point is they are meant to stop those stupid traffic jams whereby everyone comes to a near halt, crawls for 10 minutes and then the road opens up and everyone accelerated to 70+. Ie pointless hold ups.
They do this by limiting your speed based on whats in front of you and the current road congestion. My making everyone drive at similar speeds and slower the road capacity increases dramitically.
I'm sure the MIDAS system that is controlling them is still being setup and calibrated anyway, so just see how it pans out.
Speed limits are there for a reason, stop bitching and cope with it
ed C - The point is, they don't work. I drive that route virtually every day and things are worse now than before the system was introduced.
Indeed, on otherwise quite days they seem to turn on the system and generate traffic jams rather than reduce them.
The motorway actually flowed better during the roadworks for the system installation and the M6Toll link.
I drive M42 almost every day junc 10 to m5 & can confirem that the system does not help traffic flow my journey times are the same or longer than before the controls introduction. I also agree that journeys wer quicker during the building of the Toll road even with all the cones and road works than they are now
The system is like the ones you find on other motorways, They just use MIDAS plus operators can set signals. They are mainly designed for queue protection i.e. a queue builds and the system sets itself to reduce the risk of someone plowing into the back of a stationary vehicle.
The M42 is different. Its designed to avoid the queues building in the first place, hence the reason you'll see limits when no queue is evident. There are certain speeds at which throughput is maximised and the aim of the system is to do that. You may all have to go through slightly slower, but it should avoid stop-start traffic and the associated accident risk. The system is also trying to achieve journey time reliability i.e. it takes 20 minutes to get from a to b everyday, not 17 minutes one day and 35 the next.
The main difference and the reason that all the money was spent, is to enable hard shoulder use when traffic is at its worst. The increase in capacity should reduce journey times further at peak times.
Remember, the scheme is a pilot of a number of new technologies and procedures (using the h/s). The next motorway to get this won't have everything the M42 has, but the best bits will be rolled out.
Before anyone says it, its cheaper than widening and much so if the costs are reduced for future schemes (less design work). Plus, the goverment is unlikely to undertake much widening due to the number of furry protestors who end up living in trees.
Why is the UK yet again faffing about reducing speed limits on Motorways? The 70mph limit was appropriate back in the 60's and technology/engineering has improved since then. It should be obvious that driving faster will cut journey times and improve people's quality of life.
Those fools in the Highways Agency should take a visit to Germany. There are no speed limits here, drivers don't constantly change lanes and there are far less accidents (this is a documented statistic).
Pollution is also lower because German drivers don't have to keep slowing down then accelerating to navigate the speed cameras.
As a UK citizen who has recently moved to Frankfurt, I can tell you, having no speed limits really improves your quality of life. It's amazing what you can do when driving is stress free. It also makes you respect the 30mph limits, because you can always make up for lost time on the Motorway. Just my thoughts...
I have just had an e-mail suggesting that they are about to switch on a whole bank of average speed cameras along the M42 between 3 & 7b. Be warned - the tolerance is alleged to be only 2 mph !!
Thank you for your comment. However, if someone has told you that the tolerance is just +/- 2mph then they are pulling your leg. Legally the tolerance has to be 10% + 2mph. By law a speedometer has to be accurate within 10% so any speed detection device with a tolerance of less than 10% could catch drivers who were genuinely and legally unaware that they were braking the speed limit.
hello!
Can somebody please tell me what is the default speed limit on M42 between J7(a) and J3a southbound.
I just came back from Birmingham via M6 M42 M40.
I dont even remember anything about M6, but on M42 I got the impression that the limit is 70. But at J3a there was a big "national limit" sign which suggests that there has been a lower limit before it. Later I looked at my Satnav and I saw that it shows that stretch as 50 miles limit enforced by gatso on few locations. Definetly there weren't illuminated signs on the gantries whatsoever. I don't remember any conventional speed limit signs or reminders either, but I was quite tired so my mind could play tricks on me. Now I'm really worried cause if it was 50 for real I may as well kiss my licence good bye.
The default speed limit is the national limit (70mph as its a motorway). However, the gantries hold variable speed limit signs. If these are lit with a red border the speed shown is a manadtory limit with some gantires carrying speed cameras to enforce the variable limit.
At the end of the variable speed limit section there is a permanent national speed limit sign that is there whether or not the variable speed limit is in force. So, if there were no illiminated signs, you don't worry.
thanx. When there isn't lower speed restriction in force, aren't those signs on the gantries supposed to display "national speed limit sign", or they just stay dark(off), 'cause I don't remember seeing them at all.
Please advise:I saw fixed on an overhead bridge, 2 may be three grey coloured cameras, just after the 40 mph avearage speed limit restriction ends ,on the m42 in the direction of driving towards m6 when I was taking kids to drayton manor park. On the way back driving back towards the m1, I identified the bright yellow specs cameras ,but could'nt find any other cameras to link up to the grey ones ,having doubly checked all overheads bridges on the way back. are these cameras linked upto any more similar cameras towards the m6 direction, on the remainder of the m42 strech, if these are a new kind of specs cameras. Any comments please. thanks.
I will also comment here that the above mentioned cameras were two squarish shape pieces adjoined together to make one camera, as opposed to the one such square as the face , (although the same size) as found on the traffic master ,traffic information cameras. thanks.
Sorry forgot to add that the 40 mph mentioned above is a temporary restriction between junc.s. 10 and 11 of the m42.
theaardvark,
Speedos must not under-read (for true speeds over 25mph), they can over-read by up to V/10 + 6.25mph.
The 10% is probably because the primary and secondary measurements must be within 10% of each other for the offence to be valid (for unattended enforcement).
This system is a poor solution to stop-start traffic management. Drivers will still perform poor lane manoeuvres, tailgate, brake late and under-accelerate and generally not employ any forward observation beyond the brake lights of the next vehicle. The solution is mandatory motorway tuition for all learner drivers (just like in the EU where the limits are higher); instead all UK learner drivers are banned from motorway tuition – and our government is compensating for this by installing more motorway cameras?
1) Cameras are not switched on. They have not got court approval yet.
2)They are standard cameras not special type. (At present)
3) If you want to know if the gantry you are going under has cameras on it look at the opposite side. If it has cameras on so does the one your going under. There is no need to ram your brakes on under every gantry so the car behind ends up in your boot.
4) Signs are on a timer switch. The ones between J5 solihull and J6 NEC turn on at 7.15am every morning. Luckily since the clocks have changed they haven't updated the system so at present the motorway moves at 60 - 80mph every morning. Hope they don't realise there clock is wrong.
5) Further to the comments about lorries. They should stay in the inside lane if there are restrictions showing. The problem is as the speeds slow lorries have the oppurtunity to overtake each other. This then means other vehicles (cars, bikes, vans) have only one lane to get past. I am not saying the should be banned completely as everyone pays there taxes.
I agree with smeggy on compulsory training for all learners on motorway driving. Only problem is it won't help the middle aged BMW/Merc/Jag drivers.
I had an e-mail about this and found this site after a google search. In the end I e-mailed the highway agency (ATM section) to ask for official clarification. Their response was:
Thank you for your email regarding the M42 junctions 3A - 7.
We are aware of the email that has been circulating and would like to state that this has not come from an official source. Mandatory/enforceable speed limits were introduced onto this section on the 29th November 2005. These limits are being enforced by the police at their discretion via our systems.
The ATM enforcement system is primarily designed to encourage drivers to comply with the variable speed limits, which will only be in use during congestion or an incident.
I hope that this addresses your query.
If you have any further queries please contact the Highways Agency Information Line 08457 50 40 30, contact us by email at m42atmproject@highways.gsi.gov.uk or visit our web site at www.highways.gov.uk/ATM.
Has anyone got a ticket from doing 70+ when the national speed limit applies on this stretch of road?
I drove down there today for the first time in a while, and noted the gantries now had the cameras fitted. Last time I was there, the signs were up but missing the cameras.
How do you know the camera's haven't got court appoval yet Nobby?
Today, my snooper was going nuts approaching the cameras on gantry's with a 50 restriction.
The big grey boxes that look a bit like the gatso's on the M25 are ( I Think ) just a housing for the power and electrics for the camera mounted above... looks about 4 inch square.
If the system is meant to open the H/S in congestion, just how congested does it need to be???
Last wk at 20 mph max and no H/S running!
It would help a lot if people leaving at the next junction were permitted to use the H/S.
The hard shoulder running system is not yet in place. This will be introduced by 2007 according to the highways agency website.
The speed limits are not set because of congestion already in existence but to prevent it from occuring in the first place.
The cameras are DIGITAL so there is no flash necessary.
see www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/1361.aspx for more info about the whole scheme.
And as for the comment about Germany's motorways - it is also a fact that Germany has less cars per mile of road and Germans drive shorter distances than us Brits and therefore it stands to reason that they would have far less congestion than we do!!
Anabella,
Monitrons (Redspeed > Speedcurb) are digital and they use flash.
I don't know what for speed enforcement will take, but I agree it will be somehow digital.
I have now been reading these comments on this board for 12 months,has anyone been caught yet,and if so on what speed???
I have now been reading these comments on this board for 12 months,has anyone been caught yet,and if so on what speed???
I have now been reading these comments on this board for 12 months,has anyone been caught yet,and if so on what speed???
Cameras don't have type approval yet, but will do any day, so expect prosecutions soon
I have been travelling the M42 from Jct 8 to Jct 3 every day since October, and have never paid any attention to the cameras or restrictions.
To this day, I have never been flashed, or received any tickets at all.
IMO they havce messed up the whole motorway system, and ever since the new lay-out was opened, I queue every day where the M6, Tollroad and M42 join. It costs me 10 - 20 minutes extra every journey now.
Well done Highways Agency - not.
Rob, I must see you every morning as I'm heading north :) Glad I don't have to sit in that stupid queue every morning. It seems to of completely screwed the junction up. As said on Top Gear the only way to improve traffic flow is to speed things up!! not slow them down. The authorities don't look at it that way though.
Just to add to the lunacy. Virtually every junction (roundabout) on the M42 now have traffic lights on them. Roundabouts by there very nature are supposed to improve traffic flow by allowing vehicles around without having to be stop - start.
Then to add to this some muppet has decided to put traffic lights on the slip roads!! Every one who drives knows how to drive down a slip road, getting up to speed to join the motorway, leaving a gap to the car in front so that you can blend in to the traffic flow. Not now.... you get stopped by the queue of traffic and are then unable to get any speed up and have to join the motorway at a speed (under 30mph) which stops the traffic flow of the motorway. Absolute lunacy!!
LEAVE OUR MOTORWAYS ALONE
Do these cameras flash then? and do the similar ones on the m25 flash??
The traffic lights on the slip road are only used at a time when speeds on the motorway have already dropped. The idea is to release vehicles in smaller numbers, thus reducing flow breakdown on the main carriageway, making journeys smoother and reducing accidents.
If traffic on the main carriageway is only doing 30mph or so, then you don't need to be doing more than that when you join. If it's moving more quickly and you can't get up to more than 30mph, I suggest you buy a decent car or stay off the motorway. You muppet.
I travelled down this section of the M42 a few days ago. It was 11pm there was no sign of road works, however the speed limit was 40mph. Every other road user proceeded at around 50-55 mph so i followed suit. Wish i hadnt now, because if all those cameras were live, i could in theory have lost my license through multiple fines in the space of 10 miles.
Ooh, will you get a NIP, won't you get a NIP? Anyone taking bets? I reckon, won't. In fact, I know you won't.
bigboy well said mate, pro driver is a twat, and as for the stupid signs, it is a joke, like said before, and similar to with all speed cameras, attention is taken off the road and onto speedos and the signs above your head. lorries should be restricted to slow lane in heavy traffic, as should the wankers who sit in the fast lane doing 70 thinking 'im doing the limit therefore you shouldnt be going faster than me anyway'. bullshit. youre not a copper so you have no right to control speed of others. you are legally allowed to do 77 anyway so they have no argument! personally i dont think that you should be able to get points from these cameras, because in heavy traffic (where they are turned on) the road can demand your attention, and sometimes you dont have time to look up every 50 yards and change your speed so often. plus what happens if it changes just as you are going underneath? they should just send a warning letter or maybe a small fine, but points on liscence is ridiculous!
it is yet another example of the cliched nanny state that we are living in. it is a fucking joke, leave us alone and catch the real criminals!
The cameras, between j4 and j6, flashed me late last night. there was no speed limits, on the matrix system, yet it still flashed me. it was very bright and very nearly caused me to have an accident as it made me jump. as i was doin 90mph will i get a ticket through the door??? some people have said that they can measure your speed from one to another and on the the third it flashes you. i have been using this stratch of m42 for over a year and my speed has always been roughly the same. i thought the limit was only enforced when the vsl's are in place. please help!!!
